�rek� whats the command to compile lets say. stupid.c [Cypher] lol@Raven �jobber-d� :P �jobber-d� rek do you know where one can get partition magic? �@Raven� oh my god rek are u trying to compile some script kiddie exploit? �rek� nope �rek� no, i'm trying to compile a stupid program that i'm writing �elad� at your local software store, heh �@Raven� rek, for the sake of it (just don't do anything stupid), it's: �rek� and i dont wanna do it for windows �@Raven� gcc source.c -o executable �jobber-d� for free :) �@Raven� rek, you'd better be telling the truth... �rek� if u hack from a shell �rek� you will get caught �rek� no doubt about it �jobber-d� unless you connect from somwhere else and use a differnt username �elad� not hack, crack. �rek� well i'm from my house �elad� you dont need a shell to hack. �elad� you dont need a computer to hack. �jobber-d� it helps �jobber-d� it helps �rek� hehe �elad� jobber-d; no. �jobber-d� hehe �jobber-d� the best hacking tool: a sharp axe [Cypher] elad; do you mean Social Engineering? �@Raven� elad is right, u need a spellbook �@Raven� Cypher, no �@Raven� Cypher, do u know the original meaning of hacking? [Cypher] yeah �@Raven� uhm i don't think so �elad� hacking is making furniture out of wood �@Raven� alright go ahead Cypher, tell us �jobber-d� haha �elad� hence, the #ashtray lumberjack �elad� lumberjackz.. �@Raven� Cypher i don't mean this kinda meaning �@Raven� ok the OTHER meaning of hack �@Raven� does anyone here besides me and elad know what this means? �jobber-d� to be one with the computer (?) �@Raven� jobber-d, u can do THAT with an axe �@Raven� i don't mean that kinda thing �jobber-d� isnt it like being very savvy with a computer, knowing multiple programming codes, multiple OSs, and you enjoy it? �@Raven� ok, here's what: �@Raven� i'll give u 24 hours to find the REAL meaning �@Raven� jobber-d, no �@Raven� that's just being a computer wiz �jobber-d� ah �@Raven� i'll give u 24 hours to find the REAL meaning [Cypher] Hacker = A person that is interested in something more then the average expert. A person dedicated to knowledge. A person driven by curiosity :-) (not exactly correct but the meaning that's worth something) �jobber-d� i wonder what eric raymond has to say �@Raven� everyone, come back tomorrow, same time, and we'll discuss this �jobber-d� alright cool �@Raven� Cypher, that's a good start *** Joins: airborne (slipknot@uu212-190-7-198.unknown.uunet.be) �airborne� lo �@Raven� hi airborne �jobber-d� hey �@Raven� Cypher, i'll help �airborne� what a nice and warm welcome over here :) �@Raven� a hacker would try things that are irrational �@Raven� illogical �@Raven� things that aren't in the manual �@Raven� and see what happens �@Raven� a hacker wants to test his limits [Cypher] a person trying something out of the defined box �@Raven� see what he can and can't? �@Raven� see what he can and can't �jobber-d� a hacker has an instiable curiotity �@Raven� who said u cannot drill holes in your computer's box to cool it out? �@Raven� (it really works btw, makes it a tad faster) �jobber-d� hehe �@Raven� that kinda thing �@Raven� see? now we won't have to meet tomorrow to discuss this �@Raven� i already gave u the main comcept *** rek is now known as rek_away �@Raven� i already gave u the main concept �@Raven� so in other words: �jobber-d� not our fault :) �@Raven� i hacked this and that doesn't mean i cracked into it �@Raven� it means that i did something rather kewl with it that makes it exceed beyond it's limitations �@Raven� do something that it's not supposed to do �@Raven� uncover undocumented features �airborne� making a bootdisk that has a tiny registry on it is another example of a hack, ain't it right [Cypher] a hacker is actually a programmer �@Raven� CREATE undocumented features �@Raven� sorta �@Raven� Cypher, not necessarily [Cypher] usually �@Raven� he could be a guy with a really large hammer �elad� being a hacker has nothing to do with computers folks �@Raven� Cypher modern hackers are usually programmers as well �jobber-d� exactly �@Raven� elad exactly �jobber-d� the man who created the wheel was a hacker. he thought outside the box * Cypher is gonna try something now - may disconnect (in that case - brb) �pirx_away� i rather like the definition in the jargonfile �@Raven� gee, i wanna see if i can fly this really old airship, dated back from World War II, in 300KMPH �@Raven� jobber-d, right �elad� being a hacker is first of all a level of understanding what you are, hacking is a state of mind �@Raven� gee this wood is completely straight �@Raven� let's bend it in the form of a wheel and see what happens!! �@Raven� whoa!! it spins around! kewl!! �pirx_away� for me, hacking is about a passionate curiosity �jobber-d� a hacker must also be curios �elad� pirx; the jargon refers to the computer-related term �pirx_away� elad: well thats the original meaning isnt it:) and not many ppl use it in disparate contexts anyway �jobber-d� wel not many people realize that a cracker isnt a hacker, either �elad� a cracker is a hacker that uses his skills in order to break the law [Cypher] btw, anyone logging this? �jobber-d� oops �airborne� yup �jobber-d� crackers are classified as many things: as someone who decodes programs so they dont need identification... �jobber-d� or as a script kiddie... �jobber-d� or as elad said �@Raven� but airbone got in here in the middle of the discussion �elad� being a cracker is far from being a script kiddy �elad� look at it that way [Cypher] so i'll just cut&paste from the channel �@Raven� jobber-d that's another meaning of the word cracker �elad� assuming you have 3 definitions and 3 types of people �@Raven� Cypher send me the logs, then *** Quits: rek_away (rekaerf34@208.25.255.97) (Leaving) �elad� cracker, hacker, script kiddy �airborne� cypher i'm logging [Cypher] k �airborne� but i ain't got all of it �@Raven� from the beginning of the discussion �@Raven� airbone u weren't here at the beginning �elad� someone who break into systems after understanding them and finding a hole himself is a cracker �airborne� nope �@Raven� someone plz copy&paste everything from the beginning of the discussion [Cypher] i'll do it �@Raven� yup, although finding the hole yourself might be considered "elite"... �@Raven� he still broke the law �@Raven� which is dumb �@Raven� IMHO �elad� someone who knows a lot about a certain field (programming, unix) and do work for the community of that field is a hacker �airborne� not unless he notifies the ppl who previously 0wned the server/program that contains the hole �elad� someone who knows nothing but how to compile a pre-written c source or script and use it to gain fame is a script kiddy �airborne� _previously_ �elad� heh, you mean telling them you have found a hole and then using it? �elad� its still cracking �airborne� not _then_using_it_ �jobber-d� if you find a hole, thats finding a use for the program other then its intent. �@Raven� airborne, yes, but even if he notifies... �airborne� telling them and if they don't solve it _show_ them �@Raven� if he still has bad intentions �@Raven� he's a cracker �@Raven� airborne, that's another good point �airborne� yup, bad intentions are bad �@Raven� u see, when u find a hole �@Raven� and tell the vendor �@Raven� and he keeps ignoring you �@Raven� there's no other solution but to go public with it �elad� no �elad� no no no! �jobber-d� bugtraq �@Raven� to force it to take care of it's security �elad� no! �jobber-d� hehe �airborne� and going public means a lotta scriptkiddies jumpin in (bad) �elad� you do not publish a hole until there's a fix �@Raven� elad, with instructions for admins �jobber-d� taking the law into your own hands :) �elad� look look people �@Raven� elad but what if they've been ignoring you for months? �elad� where does script kiddies find their scripts from? �elad� lists like bugtraq! �jobber-d� its better then someone else finding out and then using it personally �elad� understand my point? �@Raven� you're right �@Raven� damn right �@Raven� i agree with u �jobber-d� what else are you gonna do though, elad? �elad� you could write your own fix �@Raven� ok so EVEN if you're being ignored, don't go public, right? �elad� if its open source - easy �airborne� keeping it to yourself ain't good either, someone else - with bad intentions - is bound to find it too �elad� unless you have a fix �@Raven� elad, so ur saying that if u write a fix u can go public with it? �jobber-d� elad: everyone would get lz and wouldnt bother anymore to patch their stuff �@Raven� and send out the fix �@Raven� let admins have it �@Raven� but also force the company to release an OFFICIAL fix �jobber-d� if the good people were doing it �elad� its a lot easier if its open source though �airborne� if you ain't got the source then it ain't a fix, but a workaround. And there are ways around workarounds �@Raven� elad, and if u really can't write a fix, like if u found a bug in, say, NT 4, that allows a malicious cracker to predict sequence numbers or something �@Raven� something that u simply cannot write a fix for �@Raven� since NT is soooooooooo unopen-source �@Raven� but u do have a workaround... �@Raven� a temporary fix �elad� you publish the workaround �elad� but listen �@Raven� can u still go public? �elad� the real experts hang in newsgroups �elad� many people read newsgroups �elad� 10 times than the people who read bugtraq �airborne� m'kay �pirx_away� hate that when people reason like this: "well i found this hole and told the admin, but he didnt do anything to fix it, so i exploited it to show him/her how bad security he/she has" �@Raven� ohh i get your drift! �elad� so you might want to find some nt newsgroup (maybe on a microsoft server) and re...
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